Male spankees and the female gaze
Reading that spanking story by Richard Windsor got me thinking again about a topic which has been on my mind a lot lately. Namely, why there isn't more focus on male models in spanking porn, and why there doesn't seem to be much F/m porn intended for a female audience.
I'm not into spanking cute boys myself, but I know a lot of kinky women who are, and I've barely seen any spanking porn which caters to the desires of female spankers. Besides which I daresay I'm not the only female spankee who likes to imagine herself being punished as a boy, and would enjoy seeing more young, interesting male characters being disciplined in photos and films.
The F/m material that I've seen has tended to be produced for an exclusively male audience. The star of the show is the domme, who is usually a strong, glamorous, character, and the focus of most of the photography. Very rarely is any emphasis placed on the male sub or spankee, who is often faceless, voiceless or nameless - or all three. The result is male models that are to all extents and purposes anonymous, and who certainly don't attract the same attention as their female counterparts (a point made very well recently by Spanked Hortic).
I know of four male spanking models by name. There's Peter, the director of Full Force Productions, who sometimes plays the sub in his own F/m films. Then there's Tom of Punished Butts and Thebes of Well Spanked Man, both of whom produce their own material. Finally, there's Razor of Shadow Lane, a studio with a reputation for treating their male models well. But that's it. By comparison, I couldn't even count the number of female spanking models whose work I'm familiar with. Is this woeful ignorance on my part, or is there a serious dearth of male spankees who have made a name for themselves? (If you know of others, tell me about them! Do they have their own sites? Do they blog? Do they have an online presence, is there any way of getting in touch with them?)
I can understand that some male models would prefer to remain anonymous. But this shouldn't be a reason for enforced anonymity to be the norm. Female models aren't allowed to work for most spanking sites if they aren't happy showing their face, and anyone can use a pseudonym - women are just as much at risk of scandal as men are. And if willing male models are so thick on the ground that most studios can get away without paying them for the work they do, surely studios should be able to take their pick, and select models who aren't ashamed of what they do? Or are these studios so intent on cutting costs that they'll only use men who are willing to work for free (or, shockingly, men who are willing to pay to be included in the film), at the expense of quality?
I don't mean to insult any man who has worked for free - I can understand why people do it, and I've done unpaid shoots myself before, with trusted photographers. But as a female spanking model, I have the luxury of being able to choose, and I firmly believe in the advantages of an industry standard that is maintained by both the models and the producers. You can't expect professional quality without treating someone like a professional. The onus is on the studios to change their attitude and facilitate an increased professionalism in the expectations surrounding male characters and male models in spanking porn.
One excuse I've heard for the exclusive focus on the female characters in F/m and M/f porn is that male heterosexual viewers don't want to be distracted by a strong male presence in the scene. They want to be able to imagine themselves as the male character, and the male character therefore needs to be as generic and anonymous as possible. But I can't believe that all men feel this way. What about bisexual men who are into spanking - where is the porn that caters to them? And surely not all heterosexual men are so insecure or so lacking in imagination that they can't cope with the emphasis in a spanking scene being on the male actor?
I'm queer, and I like watching girls wriggle. But the main reason I enjoy watching girls being punished is because I can identify with them. The more developed the girl's character, the more easily I can imagine myself into the scene and enjoy a little mental roleplay. I'm pretty sure that many heterosexual female spankees enjoy watching girls being spanked for the same reason.
Do male spankees not do this as well? I would have thought that any spankee watching spanking porn would tend to imagine themselves as the victim, but I could be wrong. Do other people imagine themselves watching the scene, not participating in it? I'm genuinely curious about this and would appreciate hearing what my male readers think. As a spanker or spankee, how do you respond to porn? Which characters do you identify with and why? If you're a male spankee who watches F/m porn, how do you feel about the anonymity of the male characters - would you like to see more focus on the male models?
Because I'm certain the ladies would. In the words of my friend Ophelia, the top half of a happy F/m relationship:
If I'm looking at F/m I'm wanting to identify with the women and drool over the pretty suffering (but loving it) boys.
I'd much rather see (eg) a lovely nurse or female doctor take a strong but vulnerable, boyishly pretty male patient on a journey he's never even imagined before, than some beefcake who's barely even in shot lick the boots of a busty blonde while electrodes are passed through his genitals. Not that there's anything wrong with the latter (far from it, and the men usually look very happy about it indeed in the post-session shots!), but it just ain't my kink.
The "easy" answer to this question is that visual porn always has catered to men, always will cater to men, and men want the focus of their porn to be on women, end of story. I say bollocks to that. Female-produced porn designed for female viewers has already started to revolutionise mainstream porn, with many indie studios such as Lust Films focussing more on plot and characterisation, on female pleasure and male bodies as objects of female desire. The internet has facilitated the beginnings of a huge shift in the variety available in porn, and it's only going to increase.
Spanking porn has already turned around in the last couple of decades to cater more to women - from the first edition of Februs to female-run sites like Northern Spanking and Bars and Stripes, which cater explicitly to the fantasies of female spankees and submissives.
What about the fantasies of female spankers and female dominants? Where are the F/m and F/f sites designed to appeal to female spankers? Where are the videos that focus on the personalities and cute butts of male spankees? Am I looking in all the wrong places? Is this kind of spanking porn out there, and if so, where?







18 comments:
You have raised several points that I would like to comment on in depth but I just do not have the time tonight, so I will do it tomorrow. I am very interested in what your female readers have to say about this.
Prefectdt
I look forward to hearing your thoughts, Prefect! thanks for stopping by.
I suspect my blog doesn't have much of a dominant female readership, which will probably slant the responses. Anecdotal evidence from my femdomme friends certainly suggests that Ophelia's not the only one. I'm particularly interested in the reactions of male spankees as to why, if they are the intended audience of this kind of porn, the anonymity of male models has become the norm. Is that really what the viewer wants?
What a wonderful post, and I would say that even if you had not just mentioned my blog!
It is precisely because of the typical portrayal of male spanking models, that is to say of how they are generally faceless and voiceless, that I decided to start my blog and to produce content. I am sure that opinions on this vary, but I see the mainstay of F/m spanking porn as little different from a woman trashing a sack of potatoes. To make matters worse, because the female spanker operates essentially in a vacuum, she has little character development and is at best "cruel" or "strict".
While I am slightly switchable, I do empathize with the spankee, regardless of whether they are male or female. Even with femsub spankings I view the scene from the bottom, which is not to say I desire to be a woman, but rather that I enjoy the experience she is having.
I think a part of the reason a male spankee is often anonymized is to attempt to cater to a male audience. I also think this is an error of reason. If all visual porn is for men, and all men want a nameless character to live vicariously though, then why is Ron Jeremy a household name? Imagining oneself in the place of another does not require that other to be generic, but rather human, with traits and qualities reasonably attainable by oneself.
As for pay, I believe it would greatly increase professionalism and quality. I don't imagine most unpaid, first time, male models have any experience in performing. Perhaps thats another reason to have them act as little as possible?
One thing you did not mention that bothers me about most F/m spanking porn is that spankings hurt, but the male spankee generally does not react to the pain. Whether this is due to misplaced machismo, or the studio's direction I could not say. I do know if I do not react when my wife spanks me, she becomes genuinely upset and it ruins the dynamic of the scene. After all, why should she want to beat a sack of potatoes?
Thebes
A very interesting post. I've often thought about the subject myself.
I'm a mostly dominant switch, but there is a submissive side that wants to be fulfilled every now and then. And I'm pretty disappointed by most of the F/M stuff out there - some of it is good, but overall, there isn't nearly the quality, imagination or variety that one finds in M/F or F/F material.
I've made some tentative attempts to star in an F/M video myself. I did some private ones for my own amusement, and by the aforementioned quality standard I'd say that they are even quite good. But I wanted to do something professional one day, just to "tick that box" too.
On the first attempt, it turns out that this particular producer expects the male victims to pay for the shoot. 200 Euros per domme, which would have cost me 400 Euros plus travelling expenses. I don't fancy handing over that amount of cash for a video with which someone else makes even more money, so I politely declined.
My next thought was to give "Vixen Ladies" a try on a trip to England. While they don't expect the victims to pay, the do expect them to work for free.
The rationalization is that "viewers are only interested in the dommes, anyway". So again, I didn't want to go there. Not so much because of the money (I would gladly work for free if the scene really interests me), but because the guy running the site sounds like a total jerk with that sort of condescending attitude towards the male models.
He's wrong, of course. Pandora is entirely right in pointing out that viewers identify with the girl or guy being spanked. I certainly do when I watch an F/M scene, and I've heard many male viewers say the same.
The real reason why F/M producers talk like that is simply because they can get away with it. There are plenty of guys who are willing to work for free, and apparently, there are even quite a few who pay significant amounts of money to be in a film. So it's cheaper and easier to just use the "no one is interested in you, it's all about the dommes" excuse. Sound business, I suppose.
As a result, most of the F/M stuff out there is of rather poor quality when compared to female submissive productions, where they usually pay the models and make them the stars of the film.
While the contemporary F/M practice might be "sound business" in its way, I think it is also very short-sighted. I believe there is a huge untapped market for F/M videos, with lots of both male and female viewers who would love to see some good films. But you are not going to attract a lot of creative, talented and / or good-looking models if you expect them to work for free and treat them like faceless pieces of meat.
If you would pay the male "victims" and treat them nicely, allow them some creative input etc., you could make much better films that would in all probability sell very well, allowing you to make more profit. But the effort and the gamble is probably too big for the average F/M producer to take - they make good money with the way things are now, so why should they change.
Note that despite my talk about money, it's not really about that for me. I'll pay my own travel expenses and I would lose money on a trip to, say, England. I have no problem with that. For me, the main motivation is the love of the art.
A reasonable, symbolic payment simply means: "Thank you, you've done a good job." If you pay nothing, or even expect the guy to pay, what does that tell him? "Consider yourself lucky that we allow you into the building at all?" As Pandora wrote: "You can't expect professional quality without treating someone like a professional."
I'll even work for free if a scene interests me, if I feel like my contribution is valued and I get to have some creative input. What I won't do is let myself be exploited by a lazy producer who obviously doesn't give a damn about me.
Incidentally, I've mentioned the topic myself in a recent comment on one of my own posts:
http://rohrstockpalast.blogspot.com/2008/03/words-and-attitudes.html
If it isn't obvious, my "rant" is just as tongue-in-cheek as Pandora's original (and rather funny) comment there. I certainly don't want to devalue the debate about spanking and feminism, which is a good and important subject.
But I feel that gender discrimination can go both ways, especially in the spanking community, and drawing our attention to that helps to put things in perspective. So I was very glad to read this excellent and thoughtful post here.
Hi Pandora,
I've seen some of your material on B&S which is great, but I didn't know you had a blog until someone pointed your comments out to me.
Shadow Lane is one of the most fun companies to film for. They are the only filming organization whom I've both topped for in one film (Disciplining Betty) and then subbed for in the second film (Justice For One). In fact, I'm due for my 3rd movie with SL closer to this summer as a sub. I'll keep you updated for sure.
The first video company I shot for as a sub was http://www.women-spanking-men.com/free_videos.php
On the top row far right, there is a 30 second free clip of me being strapped if you like. I did four or five videos for them which are in the member's section.
I've saved your blog to my favorites as I'm enjoying it quite a bit.
Have a good week and I'll talk to you soon.
Thanks, Razor
what an interesting post!
I was interested in what you said about male viewers possibly being distracted, intimidated or 'turned off' by a strong, visual male presence... But thinking about that, wouldn't it be the same in traditional m/f pornography?
Which doesn't seem to be right, since most hardcore stuff seems to consist of cut after cut of close-up cock shots. I've also read that some men don't like g/g pornography so much because there isn't a 'cock' they can relate to.
Maybe men just prefer less focus on the male submissive because a 'blank slate' is easier to pretend to be.
I don't know. I don't think I've managed to contribute much in my analysis!! Sorry!
"Maybe men just prefer less focus on the male submissive because a 'blank slate' is easier to pretend to be."
Interesting thought. But then again, if that is the case, wouldn't the same apply to female viewers, who would also prefer a "blank slate" (even though most of them apparently don't)? Or do men and women really think totally different about this issue? I don't believe they do, and I seem unable to find possible reasons for why such a fundamental difference should exist.
As a speculated in my original comment, I believe that the phenomenon of the "anonymous, faceless, voiceless" male spanko has little to do with actual viewers' preferences and a lot to do with common practices in the industry. In other words, it is not created by the audience, but by the producers, who seem to believe that "this is what the audience wants".
My own feelings and those I've heard from other viewers, both male and female, seem to contradict this assumption - we do not want to see anonymous male spankees, we would love to have interesting, talented, creative personalities, the sort of which exist among female models.
But as long as F/M producers can get away with male models who work for free, portraying them as faceless pieces of meat and making good money with these practices, there is no real incentive to change what for them is a well-working system.
There are good, "idealistic" F/M producers out there who treat their male models as professionals, but they seem to be much fewer in number and not representative of the F/M genre as a whole.
I would like to focus on a few things that you said in the post.
Firstly you said that producers told you that "Male hetrosexual viewers don't want to be distracted a strong male presence in the scene". Well as far as this 'Male hetrosexual viewer' is concerned, I can say that this is BS, I especialy like watching F/f work because, even though I am watching a female sub/bottom, I am identifying with a strong sub/bottom presence, I will not watch a scene with some weak insipid guy in that I refuse to relate too. I do not want to identify with a "generic and anonymous character".
This isn't a new thing, I do not see much difference between the attitude to F/m productions now and the X/f videos that where turning up from the UK on the shelves in Amsterdam in the early to mid 90's. The producers wher insulting the female subs/bottoms in the films and me as a customer then and, untill Sting In The Tale stuff started to turn up I stoped buying X/f then and I refuse to buy any F/m material that does the same now.
I would like to leave a message to the producers that keep coming up with these bull shit excuses and I am sorry but I am going to have shout about it - YOU ARE INSULTING ME! I DO TAKE THAT INSULT PERSONALY! I AM NOT GOING TO SPEND MY HARD EARNED ON YOUR RUBBISH ATTITUDE!
Prefectdt
Another great post and another great discussion! I hereby join the boycott of all those awful F/m spanking producers. Alas, my stand doesn't exactly have them very worried, as I don't even own any spanking DVDs...
I completely agree that the internet has made it possible for people to talk and realize that they're not the only ones with strange desires. You know, like being spanked or liking to see believable characters rather than faceless men in spanking films. As I said in response to Spankedhortic's "rant," I think I had the economic causal relationship of guys watching F/f material backwards. I had thought that M/f companies get away with so much crap because submissive guys often watch F/f or M/f instead, reducing the demand for M/f. Having been educated by you guys, I suspect that the reverse is in fact true: guys watch F/f or M/f even if they prefer, film quality being equal, F/m scenarios because there are so few quality producers.
Prefectdt is absolutely right about the parallels to X/f spanking porn. This goes straight to one of the key issues in the feminist pornography post. Whether the film is intended for/ consumed by men or women, and whether the spanking models are male or female, they should be treated with dignity and respect. That's how we should judge the ethical quality of the company, rather than by which fantasies they film, dark or otherwise. And we shouldn't consume the products of companies that don't do so.
So, now the question is, who's willing to put together and post a "good people" list of spanking video companies of all genres? And who would decide which companies get to be on it? I envision a world in which spanking video companies strive for the right to earn the "Philosopher Ludwig Seal of Ethical Pornography." Or maybe it would sound better in German, where it could all be one word...
Here ya go Indiana,
This list comprises 10 different spanking companies which have their own way of sharing the spanking scene. These are the very best.
I might be a bit biased since most of the owners and a lot of the models are my personal friends as well.
www.shadowlane.com
www.firmhandspanking.com
www.punishedbrats.com
www.bars-and-stripes.com
www.northernspanking.com
www.samsdiaries.com
www.dallasspankshard.com
www.goodspanking.com
www.women-spanking-men.com
www.fareastmedia.com
Razor
A bit brazen of me I know, Pandora, but I once recorded an audio story I had written where a girl is spanked as a boy in her dreams. If you care to listen to it you will find it right here http://blip.tv/file/127799
Richard Windsor.
I'm a male switch, mostly spanker, long to be spankee about as often, so take that as you will.
I will say, when spanking sites start offering paid shoots for men, i, and many others, will be first in line.
Oh, and i identify with the spanker and spankee in a film, just depends on the day and mood
Well thought and an excellent read.
If producers are being over-run with males desperate to participate for free (or to pay), then it makes unfortunate sense that males will continue to be treated differently.
Perhaps like many Tops, I know I'd enjoy administering some well-deserved attitude adjustments for film or net myself. Maybe I should send Razor an email, no?
Thank you for such an articulate contribution.
I'm sorry cause there is no way to do this that doesn't feel like a drive by link - but this is something I have talked about a lot, so...
From here
"In kink porn everyone looks at the sub. They are the ones with the fancy bondage and the pained expressions and the fireworks up their arses. If you’re a dom you look at the sub and imagine you’re topping them, if you’re a sub you look at the sub and imagine you *are* them. Everyone’s gaze falls naturally onto the sub. Now, here’s where everyone comes unstuck trying to make F/m porn. No pornographer on the face of the earth can get his pretty little head around making porn where we naturally look at the man rather than the woman. Therefore (stay with me) it is actually completely *impossible* to make F/m porn."
Also more here
Or to save time: F/m porn is totally fucking screwed. Thanks for noticing. More people need to point this out.
Beej x
I have to say that I agree completely with you. The F/M resources have a clear focus: the men submissive. But in my opinion there is not nearly so attrative to them.
Me, as a male switch, in F/M videos I want to *see* the submissive person in 'problems', as I see in M/F or F/F videos. I want to see their faces when the paddle or cane impact in them, no a masked face. And I would see normal to hear them shouting sometimes (as a will do in their situation, I'm not superman). This idea of 'interchangeable macho' dislike me. I want to imagine me in their situation, and in a so few natural way I can't do that.
Also, I think that this segment should be better, and the first thing is respecting the male model, paying them.
As I se in the other comments, I am not the once with this opinion.
PD: English is not my first language, so please forgive my mistakes :-).
I think I'm that bisexual sub guy that you're talking about. And if I watch spanking porn, I always want to identify with the victim, regardless if it's male or female. And to be able to do so, I need a character there, not just an anonymous ass... the only website where I have a permanent membership is discipline4boys.com, it's a gay site, but it has the best looking and cutest male spanking models that I know. And if there was a F-m site with such models I definitely would join.
Thanks for mentioning my blog, Pandora. I'm still doing some own content, but nothing commercial at the moment, just some pics for the blog now and then...
Tom
You're getting one great big "hoorah!!!" from me!
I'm a little late to comment but I thought this an excellent post. Any type of porn, whether it be mainstream or fetish, that treats a person as anonymous or a "sack of potatoes" never interests me. It just seems insulting, as if the viewer has such issues they can't handle looking at the same gender onscreen. What rubbish.
Perhaps I'm naive but I was unaware that male subs were being asked to pay to star in some F/m films. This is such a messed up way to do business. But as was mentioned in earlier comments if a business model is working what's the company's motivation to change?
I do have hope that the many fans of F/m can change this situation. It's certainly worked in other situations. I'm not alone in my dislike of shaven pussies in porn and finally there's some female models with pubic hair again. (I tend to like retro porn because the women look more natural. And I'm a sucker for retro fashion.)
Post a Comment